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Report for IANDS about our work in Hungary in 2001
 Report of A. Liptay-Wagner, PhD, REVITAL Foundation,
the organisation of the Budapest-FOI (March 2002)

Andrew Liptay-Wagner, PhD & Dr. Raymond Moody



Information about the 1st Hungarian NDE congress in 2001, the  “aftereffects” and the plans for 2002

  Contact:  iands-budapest@mail.datanet.hu   or   andreas@liptay-wagner.de

1.    Aim and strategy of  introducing the subject of NDE in Hungary by a conference and           with a series of actions in the following years:

We decided for a ”big-bang start” to build up in a postcommunist country:

the collection of accounts and  to inform/help experiencers, and based on above, to start with an organised interdisciplinary NDE research, inform people about the consequences/findings of the research from medical, spiritual, ”paranormal” and philosophical point of view. Or in other terms: spread information and concepts about the mind-body problem.

The Foundation considered the following basic image strategy for NDE: the subject should be in the beginning a ”medical/psychological/consciousness” subject with less accounts/stories, but with more analysis. Therefore, articles/interviews only for selected medias. No press conference for the congress – as boulvard-press could misuse information what makes a negativ effect on ”newcomers”.

2.  Building up the staring NDE knowledge for the core team: one book of  Moody, later  of
     Ring, and Ritchie was translated and published already in Hungarian. One research was
     made in 1990 by Hungarian MD´s (now members of the Foundation).

IANDS´s hompage and its links opened a huge reservoir for NDE knowledge to our far away country as well.

Jeff Long MD illustrated us, which is the proper way of collecting data and how to build up a practical home page (our www.revital.negral.hu  learned much from his page.)

Dr.Schröter-Kunhardt´s (Germany) publications (differential diagnosis, statistics of NDE features) were a strong argument for MD´s and psychologists in the articles written.

The Dutch NDE conference in November 2000  gave impulses also to include consciousness studies and ideas about the planned/prospectiv way of  research method.

3. Preparations, invitations: by 6 articles in different periodicals, 3 ads and about 3000 direct
    mail invitations over associations of cardiologists, family doctors and all hospitals. Flyers
    for esotheric groups and universities and to 2 religious papers.

4. Program of the congress of March 2001, on the University of Medical Sciences, in
    Budapest

16th Friday, 2-5 pm: Lecture of Prof. Raymond Moody –for mostly medical staff, invited by direct mail and articles in 3 medical papers. About 600 participants. Based on questioneers, there were abt. 40 experiencers.

17th Saturday: from 10 to 8 p.m.Lectures from:  R.Moody, Dr.Glanz from Zurich (psychiatrist with 2 NDEs);  a Hungarian psychiatrist, who made a scientific paper about NDE in 1990; a C.G.Jung- psychiatrist specialized on religion-patology, and experience in NDE-aftereffect treatments; Liptay-Wagner spoke about research findings of NDE in Germany and Holland, incl. mind-body research. German video with M.Sabom/P.Reynolds. Finally a ”revolutionary” theologian (translater of a German NDE-book) spoke about historical NDE´s and points of view of the religions. 2 Hungarian experiencers spoke about their NDE.

 The leader of IANDS-Slovenia  (an experiencer) and Mr. Ludwig DeVocht from IANDS-Belgium talked about their activity. There were  900-1000 visitors (not only medical staff).

In the lunch-break helpers talked about 30 experiencers. It was a pity, but due organisational problems, not all discussions were protocolled.

18th Sunday: from 10 to 7 p.m.: 16 lectures (50 minutes each) about spiritual, religious, historical and parapsychological aspects of NDE. Medical people were not  informed about this conference day (organised by the ”Hungarian SPR”, called Ass. of Spiritual Researchers, which shares its office with REVITAL). Here 6 experiencers told their accounts. 5-600 visitors, so alltogeather about 2000 visitors  in 3 days.

The entry fees were abt. 10 -15 $ /day (which is considered as high in Hungary, as average monthly salary in Hungary is about 260 $),  so we had mor expenses as income, but we achieved a break-thru for the subject NDE in Hungary.

The presence and lecture of Prof. Moody was very important, as only his name was known in Hungary (due his first book, which was reedited 8 times by a catholic publisher, when  the communist regime collapsed in 1989). He spoke very diplomatically and so the newcomers were not shocked with too far reaching concepts.

After the lectures Raymond talked with many “fans”, who partly presented a 12 years old example of “Life after life”, saying “this book changed my life”. Raymond had  4 TV interviews and 3 other interviews.

A famous talk-show master of the main TV station prepared a 2 hour programm about NDE with experiencers and their families, several MD-s,  3 members of our foundation and with Dutch NDE-researcher Pim van Lommel cardiologist (prospectiv research in 10 hospitals and aftereffects-controll in 2 and 8 years) and brain-mind researcher Romijn (an enhanced concept of Eccles-Margenau-Pribram) and a long interview with Prof. Moody. Only 3 days after the congress could the talk show be presented on the TV. About 10% of the Hungarian population have seen it.

We prepared 1000 pieces of a 112-pages (DIN A5 size) booklet with abt 20 short extracts about NDE, just for a ”starter for newcomers”. 450 were sold during the conference (price: 2 $).

From the content of the booklet: what is NDE; what does IANDS do (based on IANDS´ homepage); extracts from Life after Life and from George Ritchie´s book; consciousness studies of Stanislav Grof; from Kübler Ross; my ideas about the values of NDE for the experiencer and for the society; findings of the NDE research in Hungary in 1990; results of the Dutch researchers; Melvin Morse: Logan´s story, Kate´s account; from the lecture of PMH Atwater in Holland and  Children of Millenium; the story of a Hungarian nurse; a blind´s account; extract from Zaleski´s book;  report about a new dogma of Vatican :”immediate survival of a spiritual element after death” (my research); the NDE-lers of Tibet (the delok´s): lamas controlled experimental NDE of 1 week duration; OBE on the highway to Hamburg; 4 brand new Hungarian accounts; abt 30 resources of NDE research/literature based on IANDS´s lists; and finally: what REVITAL does, how to join us? 

 5. ”Aftereffects” of the congress:

The chief of the central countrywide rescue service promised to write a letter on all resuscitated patients, that they should contact us if they had experience (it´s a pity, but nothing happend till  Feb.2002). Abt. 70 people intended to work with REVITAL, or visite our next NDE training.

About 50 experiencers have already filled a questionnaire. 6 of them are MD´s or nurses !!!

A FOI club was organised for experiencers in our office in downtown .

Every third month there is a lecture-day about NDE for 60-100 people, and a club-like chat in the last 2 hours.

Our www.revital.negral.hu  has more hits as before. We had about 10 reports in the newspapers.  We hope that NDE became a part of the paradigma of Hungary.

6. Further actions in 2001, plans for 2002:  

We organised after the conference several meetings with experiencers and researchers (who participated in the training). Some experiencers started to cry hearing the reports of aftereffects of the others, saying  “now I understood myself, after 10 years”! Problem by these general meetings: the experiencer does not go into deep, personal details.

So we strated with the individual interviews. It needs much travel or long waiting periods. We hope to document all conference- and new accounts end 2002.

Based on the results of  Dr. Pim van Lommel in 10 hospitals (publication in Lancet, 15th Dec. 2001) we offer now a 1 day “in house” lecture serie about NDE, especially for nurses. By this way we hope to find some people, who could collect accounts, like 2 nurses of  the Szentes Hospital (retrograd analyses). Nurses can so partipicate on medical conferences with this special lectures (very few Hungarian MDs would be ready to speak about NDE cases on conferences).

We plan to invite NDE experts from Germany and the Netherlands, to speak on congresses of cardiologists, anestesiology or psycology.

For 2003 we are ready to organise an European NDE conference, if  IANDS and the active European groups are ready to cooperate. The first plan shall be presented to IANDS in May. (Actually, Holland has the best base for such a congress, so we gladly give it up for Holland, if  they are ready to organise it. The only arguments for Hungary are: the low price level, the cooperation of the Medical University and the organisational power of the REVITAL Foundation). The well planned European NDE homepage can be a good help to inform many people about it.

A team was established by the Hungarian Strategic Research Institute after the Moody-congress for “NDE – Brain and Mind” with abt. 20 researchers. It  seemed to be a good idea, but the team was too heterogen. So REVITAL tries to limite it on a team of 5 (a transpersonal psychologist (NDE experiencer!), an MD, a mind researcher and the REVITAL staff). First we read the relevant literature and educate each other.

We heve given lectures (2 hours, plus 1 hour discussion) till now in following Hungarian towns: Budapest (yearly 4-5 full-day lectures), Miskolc (2 times), Debrecen, Vasarosnameny, Bekescsaba, Szentes, Szeged (2 times), Pecs (2 times), Szekesfehervar, Balatonfoeldvar, Kaposvar (2 times). Here we sell books about NDE in Hungarian– usually not easy to find (a few % of people read English). The lectures had usually an echo in the press. In 2002 only 6-8 are planned in the country, but more in Budapest.

We promoted 3 students to write a dissertation on NDE. They get  the Journals of  IANDS, donated books and some of the Hungarian documentation. Now 2 students are working on a study.

We plan to send about 20 text modules to journalists (and a list of  experiencers, with some detailes about the type of experience, but no addresses) to enable articles. We  realised that a profound, detailled article in a countrywide newspaper activates the most new experiencers, to contact us.

10th May is a roundtable-discussion in the Eotvoes Scientific University about NDE with 2 skeptics, 1 teologian, and REVITAL. Our “weapons” are: findings of the Dutch and GB (Dr. Prania) study, video of the German TV SWF with Sabom/ Pam Reynolds, statistics and exact definitions of “what is NDE not” (i.e. differential diagnosis of Dr. Schroeter-Kunhardt from  Heidelberg), ideas of Sir John Eccles, Stanislav Groff,  Charls Tart (OBE experiment in labor) and of course some experiencers.

A new allround NDE lecture-serie is planned from Sept 2002 for abt. 60-80 people. 4-5 full days with subjects of brain-mind relations as well, further concepts of David Bohm (and Margenau, Romijn and others) about the “implicit order” as the dimension of  the pseudo-photons and consciousness.

(Though I live in Germany, I can not be active there for NDE as few free time (due family) and as my ideas how to promote NDE in Germany over 4 alternative strategies, were not supported.)

Sincerely Yours,      

Andrew Liptay-Wagner,  REVITAL Foundation – H-1053 Budapest, Ferenciek tere 4 , Hungary

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Annex

 

Contents of the Basic Training for NDE – for volunteers of the REVITAL Foundation,

Budapest, Hungary

From 20th November 2000  to 26th February 2001

(planned to repeat and extend for autumn 2002)

     Aim: to build up/teach a group, who can consult the experiencers during and after the conference of March,   16-18, 2001 in Budapest, and to give lectures to spread the culture of NDE (and collect further experiencers), and/or participate in research later.

     Participants: 52, mostly came with some basic NDE literature-knowledge (book of Moody or Ring). 50% wanted to help later. Abt 10 persons with medical/psychology background. 3-4 hospice workers. 4 experiencers. Abt 30 made the exam (8 questions to answer on paper, and 15 minutes talk with 2 of the lecturers). Abt 10 persons want to  work in a research-team.

     Lectures: almost every 2nd week, Monday from 6 to 9 p.m. in the office of Revital.

     To every lecture 1 or 2 experiencer were invited to tell their case.

     

      The preparatory work of the lecturers was based on the rich literature IANDS and Mr Guggenheim gave me during  my stay at the Philadelphia conference in July 2000, further the books donated by Ms. Atwater and her long explanatory mails and discussions during the Holland conference. The research methods were illustrated by Jeff Longs Excel-files, he sent by mail.  

     

     1st Lecture, 20th Nov 2000: by G.Vereczkey, MD,  anasthesiology/cardiology and J. Pilling , MD,      .                   psychiatry Med. University, Budapest (hospice expert, wrote a study on NDE in 1990)

     Subject: Neurological and psychological background of NDE. Researchers of NDE in US/GB.

 

     2nd Lecture, 27th Nov: Prof. Dr. S.Szathmary, teologist of the reformed (Luther) Christian church, translator of the  book of  Hampe, German teologist, about NDE.

      Subject: Historical cases and religious cases. The theology about otherworld. Mystic experiences of christians. Soul and spirit. The new dogma of  Vatican from the 17.May 1979:  about the ”immediate survival of a spiritual element after death” - a revolution after 1200 years dominance of the ”soul”!!!!

     3rd Lecture, 11th.Dec : Liptay-Wagner, researcher                                                                   Subject: Findings of  Dutch researchers in 10 hospitals – a prospectiv study.        Findings of Dr. Schröter-Kunhardt (psychiatrist, Heidelberg). Video of SWF: Holland, German cases, Sabom/P.Reynolds case, brain researches in Zürich (drugs+radioactiv fluid-> and PET-analyses), Interview with Dr. Lommel cardiologist and Dr. Romijn (Amsterdam Brain Res. Inst).Differential diagnosis of NDE: ... what is NDE not (abt 20 topics). About statistics, datas and accounts of Jeff Long, Las Vegas.

 

      4th Lecture, 8th January: Liptay-Wagner

      Subject: Parapsychological correlates

     What are the altered states of consciousness? Ideas/experiences of Stanislav Groff. Definitions of Prof. Resch, para-researcher of the Vatican, about trance and its fenomenon.

     More minds in one body: cases of Dr. Carl Wickland and medial wife (Philadelphia, 1920-30),

     cases of Dr.Edith Fiore (exorcism in hypnosis, abt 1980), case of William Milligan (Ohio Univ., 1977) with 23 personalities. Hydrocephaly: no cortex but perfect thinking.

     Video cuts about trance states in Africa (voodoo), Brasil, Shamantrance in Sumatra, levitation in Nigeria and GB.  OBE experiment of Tart (based on internet infos). About the Tibetian spiritual experiments: delok´s (lamas) create 1 week long NDE states (Hungarian Tibet-expert gave explanations).

 

 

      5th Lecture, 15th January: Dr F. Suele psychiatrist and religion-patologist

     Subject: 3 cases, where NDE was not integrated and long analysis was neccesary.

     Case nr 3: atheist got severe muscle problems thru refusal of the reality of her NDE.

 

      6th Lecture, 29th January: Dr. I. Zatik, traumatology/emergency-care (co-author of Mr Pilling MD, book about 45 NDE cases dominated from the point of view of psychology, 1990)

     Subject : NDE cases of children and of the blind, suicide (based on Vital Signs and IANDS-Journals ,  further books of PMH Atwater)

 

     7th Lecture, 12th February: Dr. F. Schaffhauser psychotherapist, leader of the Victor Frankl School of Logotheraphy in Hungary.

     Subject: How to question and how to use Questioneirs. Help by the life-changes and family problems. Suicide prevention by V. Frankl´s psychology

 

     8th Lecture, 26th February; Dr. Pilling, psychiatrist

     Subject: Which aftereffects can come on the surface? Relations of NDE and dying. Before Death Communication. Graving.

 

Reported by A. Liptay-Wagner
 


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